You might’ve heard of doulas — usually women who support other women in getting through the process of childbirth. But there are also doulas whose work focuses on the opposite end of our lifespans. They’re called death or end-of-life doulas. We’ll talk with two of them about their work.

Darnell Lamont Walker is based in Georgia and Michigan; his new book is Never Can Say Goodbye: The Life of a Death Doula and the Art of a Peaceful End. Kim Burgess was a nurse practitioner before becoming nn end-of-life doula. She's with Comforting Transitions in O'Fallon, Illinois.

COVID-19 has killed nearly 20,000 Illinoisans. And for the family left behind, rituals of mourning have been curtailed or prevented. We talk about saying goodbye in a pandemic with the Rev. Marshall Hatch, pastor of the New Mount Pilgrim Missionary Baptist Church in Chicago's West Garfield neighborhood; he and his community have been hard-hit by COVID. We also spoke with SIU-Edwardsville Prof. Jocelyn DeGroot, who studies death and grieving, and is the author of The New York Times op-ed, "What Should You Say When Someone is Grieving?" And Kevin Rafferty, president of Rafferty Funeral Home in Moline.

Most Americans don’t have an advanced directive, a plan for their last days. Those plans require having a conversation about your wishes -- how much medical intervention you want, who you want to visit you, where you want to be cared for.